TELECOM 247

Summary:

The dispute relates to a call out charge back in January. The charge is
unfair and wrong and I dont want to be bullied into paying, but need
the phone line. Ive been cut off now and wonder if I could pay and then
hope to get the money back via a small claims court action.



The shortened version for anyone who can be bothered:

The problem was a very real and annoying intermittent noise on the line
which was not present on the day the engineer called.

It has often shown up since (up until mid April) and once I phoned
faults when it was bad. The lady could hear it and said the call was
being recorded. Ive referred BT to this recording but they seem to
ignore that and insist that as their engineer found no fault when he
tested the line, the fault must be with my equipment. (They also ignore
the fact that the engineer tested the line with my equipment attached
and found no problem with it)

Ive tried to avoid dealing with this by phone as my anger management
skills are not really up to dealing with the foreigners at the other
end. Ive sent a few emails and web form mails. This achieved no more
than a letter telling me that the engineer found the fault was not with
their network and so the charge is fair.

Ive also written repeatedly saying I want to escalate the complaint and
asking how to do this and asking if Ive exhausted their procedures so I
can move the complaint on the regulatory bodies. They havent answered this.

Two weeks ago I wrote to the Office of the Chairman address ago and
had a letter back saying they would look into it.

Yesterday I got a letter imposing a Ł7.50 late payment charge and
warning me that non payment would lead to disconnection. I presumed it
must be a mistake as I hadnt had a further reply from the Office of
the Chairman, however the phone service seems to have been cut off today.

I feel I have a good case but dont want to be bullied by BT who
incidentally have tried something similar on a neighbour (OVER Ł500 in
their case). On the other hand Im half way through a contract with BT
for my broadband. I presume I have to keep paying even if it too is cut
off?? Im wondering if I should just pay the disputed charge and then
attempt a small claims court action (is this the same as money claim
online?) to recover the money. Are there any other reasonable options??
Comments and advice sought please . . .

Vote with your feet and the legal system, such that it is.

rainandsnow wrote in message
news:6a5cskF36i5b8U1@mid.individual.net...
| Summary:
|
| The dispute relates to a call out charge back in January. The charge is
| unfair and wrong and I dont want to be bullied into paying, but need
| the phone line. Ive been cut off now and wonder if I could pay and then
| hope to get the money back via a small claims court action.
|
|
|
| The shortened version for anyone who can be bothered:
|
| The problem was a very real and annoying intermittent noise on the line
| which was not present on the day the engineer called.
|
| It has often shown up since (up until mid April) and once I phoned
| faults when it was bad. The lady could hear it and said the call was
| being recorded. Ive referred BT to this recording but they seem to
| ignore that and insist that as their engineer found no fault when he
| tested the line, the fault must be with my equipment. (They also ignore
| the fact that the engineer tested the line with my equipment attached
| and found no problem with it)
|
| Ive tried to avoid dealing with this by phone as my anger management
| skills are not really up to dealing with the foreigners at the other
| end. Ive sent a few emails and web form mails. This achieved no more
| than a letter telling me that the engineer found the fault was not with
| their network and so the charge is fair.
|
| Ive also written repeatedly saying I want to escalate the complaint and
| asking how to do this and asking if Ive exhausted their procedures so I
| can move the complaint on the regulatory bodies. They havent answered
this.
|
| Two weeks ago I wrote to the Office of the Chairman address ago and
| had a letter back saying they would look into it.
|
| Yesterday I got a letter imposing a Ł7.50 late payment charge and
| warning me that non payment would lead to disconnection. I presumed it
| must be a mistake as I hadnt had a further reply from the Office of
| the Chairman, however the phone service seems to have been cut off today.
|
| I feel I have a good case but dont want to be bullied by BT who
| incidentally have tried something similar on a neighbour (OVER Ł500 in
| their case). On the other hand Im half way through a contract with BT
| for my broadband. I presume I have to keep paying even if it too is cut
| off?? Im wondering if I should just pay the disputed charge and then
| attempt a small claims court action (is this the same as money claim
| online?) to recover the money. Are there any other reasonable options??
| Comments and advice sought please . . .

At this stage BT have the whip hand. The lesson is never assume anything.
Pay up and then continue to negotiate is the best thing. BT are notorious
for their inability to communicate with customers and different departments.
In my experience BT do make it very clear that if you report a fault and
none is found that you will be charged for an engineering visit. The normal
procedure is for the customer to disconnect all internal wiring and
equipment and use just one phon connected to the test socket behind the
removeable facepate of the master socket. Did you do this and was the fault
still present?

Peter Crosland

NOISE

Before doing anything with this, has the noise gone or is it still there?
If it was your kit and the noise has gone, tough shit.
If it is lazy useless engineer syndrome (Mummy I dont want to climb that
pole/get wet/go in that box) then make yourself a right royal pain in the
arse with the patch manager.

Make a note of this number: 0800 671 605. It is the BT Engineers control
number in most parts of the UK. (Select operational area #1, then your
area + #, then if you have received an ring control message + #). Ring
this number, tell them you are a member of the public and you either want
the patch managers number, or you want him to call you. Tell them the
number has been published on the Internet and you will make it very
public and make them very busy if you dont get your request. Then take
the issue up with him/her. As there are usually only three controllers
running an area AND THE CALLS ARE FREE, you can keep ringing them until
you get your way.

I has a problem like this in Reading a few years ago. I was given the
details of a junior manager, one Mark Arnold. I staked the guy out and
issued a summons against him at his home address. I took photos of
engineers working in the highway without the correct legal kit and made a
bloody nightmare of myself. I got my money back and my line put back on,
plus 2 years line rental free. It is worth the effort but remember - you
must act legally, you must not harass or threaten, and you need to be
dedicated. The squeaky wheel will always get the oil.

Noisy faults are difficult to find and it is 50/50 as a rule as to if it
is customer equipment or network. It does help if the engineer gets off
his fat lazy ass and looks for it however. Good luck.

Peter Crosland wrote:

I cant find their terms but I understood that the customer is charged
if the fault proves to be after the master socket. Is that incorrect??
It is such rotten logic for them to say that no fault found = fault must
be with customers equipment - surely that cant be in their terms??




Yes I did - on many occasions. I removed the front plate from the master
socket and plugged in a variety of known good phones and this never made
any difference to the noise.

It has been a long standing fault. I had a BT engineer out in October
2007 and he found nothing. Typically the fault will show up, get worse,
then disappear after Ive reported it. In October however, the fault
report was left open and an engineer tested at the exchange two days
later and found a massive earth loop near the exchange. Curing that
cured the noise for a while. An engineer told me they had replaced one
section of line due to trees rubbing through it but BT have done a lot
of work at and near the exchange recently and it looks as if they have
may have cured the fault - which has not shown up since mid April.

Thanks for your advice to pay up at the moment. I suppose that does seem
the sensible option now but Im surprised at being cut off after the
charimans office said they would look into it.

David James wrote:

see other reply - noise has not shown up since Mid April following a lot
of work by BT on and near the exchange (1 mile from me)



It wasnt my kit. I know better than to report it without disconnecting
everything from master socket.



No the engineers are great. They tried but an intermittent fault in
anything is notoriously difficult to find. Before the guy came out in
January he phoned and I told him the noise was not showing up and so he
wouldnt find anything at that time but he came anyway. (It was the day
after Id reported it)




What they need is a system where they can get an engineer in the
vicinity to call at short notice to catch the fault while it is still
there. Ive often asked for that but they cant do it. I also asked for
a number I could phone when the noise was there so they could hear it.
They ignored that. - Hence me phoning faults once when it was bad. The
lady could hear it clearly and confirmed the call was being recorded.
She was very keen to send someone out, but I didnt want another call
out charge and thought that with her having it recorded they would
believe me, but I dont think theyve even bothered to listen to it.

On Wed, 28 May 2008 17:39:52 +0100, rainandsnow scribbled:

been charged for a FNF (Fault not found). Is happy fault is not with own
kit, appears to have some element of OH feed.

If you are going to pay the fee then you can argue that;
1) Your installation should be at the current network standards (the
engineer who visited should have made sure of it)
2) Your extension wiring and equipment are assumed to be fault free as
the engineer who visited you did not disconnect them.
3) The work that BT has done, being chargeable, should be guaranteed for
a year. If you paid them for an extension it would be.

With this in mind you can pay your bill and then issue a County Court
Summons against BT for their defective workmanship, Issue it to their
registered office at 81 Newgate Street. You can do it online: https://
www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/csmco2/index.jsp

It would be reasonable to claim for the fee, your Court Costs, bang on

On Wed, 28 May 2008 17:39:52 +0100, rainandsnow
wrote:



Yep in 40 years plus of having dealings with GPO and BT I have never
had cause to complain at all about their engineering staff and the
same goes for VM staff in recent years . It is the lazy keyboard
tapping staff in the offices and call centers of each that want to
waken up and do their jobs correctly and efficiently it may also help
if they where taught to speak English .